Why does most of women's lib fit into these two main groups?

[urban dream]

So isn't somebody going to tell me that I'm an idiot for not taking the feel when I had the chance? It's been nine years and I haven't gotten another opportunity like that. Still, I don't regret my decision, because it proves my character...

There you go. It's your life, and if you're happy with your decision, why should we criticise? You know what's best for you. ^^

The reason why women have been kept down historically is because they're physically weaker, and because men are horny and have a tendency to see them as objects.

That's not true! Strength is an issue here, but not at the bottom of it. The reason why women have been kept down is because they can have children and men can't. Here's how evolution originally intended it to be: Women create families by giving birth and men keep them alive by killing animals for their wife and children to eat. Now, men always instinctively believed that if women want to kill animals too they'd get themselves killed or have too little time to give birth and raise families. The result -- no families. And the need to pass on your genes is behind basically all human instincts, so this was automatically a big no-no. This mechanism can be switched off, of course, but it takes a couple of generations, and we've only just got these generations behind us. Women's lib first turned up, as far as I know, in the early 20th century, disappeared during the world wars, then made a comeback during the sixties and has been going strong ever since.

[Wisemon]

Actually, we're both right. Men are stronger because women have children. Since men don't need the child-bearing body structure, they can have more muscle mass.

[Duncman]

acually this conversation reminds me of a quote my mom once said and another quote i once said

"Women are Bitch's." my mom

"Men are assholes." myself

and yes i'm a guy

[milk me!]

As someone who's done plenty of manual labor, let me say that feminism isn't necessarily a bad thing for guys. Let the women do some of the grunt work. In a civilized society, there's no reason why they shouldn't be treated as equals. That opinion makes me a feminist.

For what it's worth, the clothes on your back were probably sewn by girls working 12 hour days in a stuffy factory in Asia (for half of what we'd be paid for doing the same work in North America or Europe). That's manual labor too, you know, and in many ways, it's worse than working construction or hauling shit up out of a mine.

[Wisemon]

Hey, work is work. China, a country with 1.2 billion people, needs jobs for those people, and the world gives them those jobs. Also, a majority of the manufacturing facilities are quite modern; they're usually not sweatshops. I'm not denying the existence of sweatshops, but they're mostly in the smaller unregulated countries, like Honduras and parts of Indonesia. This definitely isn't true, but one reason why more Asian women go to work might be because the average Asian man isn't much stronger than the average Asian woman. Yep, I aim to offend. Who'll get burned next? On my people, they took turns. Maybe I'll be the one who gets flamed.

[urban dream]

Actually, we're both right. Men are stronger because women have children. Since men don't need the child-bearing body structure, they can have more muscle mass.

Yes, that's true. However, I think you missed my point there. It's true that women are physically weaker than men, but I don't think that's the reason why women have been opressed for so long. And remember, it's not as if women were being opressed everywhere. In a few societies, THEY are the strong sex, and men are being supressed. I can't think of any examples right now, but such societies have existed and some still do. I remember seing a documentary once about a region where rape and abuse of men by women was a huge problem. I'm quite sure it was somewhere in Asia, probably in a former sovjet country.

For what it's worth, the clothes on your back were probably sewn by girls working 12 hour days in a stuffy factory in Asia (for half of what we'd be paid for doing the same work in North America or Europe). That's manual labor too, you know, and in many ways, it's worse than working construction or hauling shit up out of a mine.

Good point! It's not as if women in general didn't do any manual labor... Just women in our parts of the world. Although, come to think of it, there's probably a fair amount of women who work in factories. I'm mainly thinking of women of the US working class here. And looking back at history, women built bombs and war machinery in the second world war.
Plus, if you go back a hundred and fifty years in European history, you'll find whole families with women and children working in factories under horrible conditions. This is what made communism so popular when it came up.

one reason why more Asian women go to work might be because the average Asian man isn't much stronger than the average Asian woman.

It might be manual labour of a kind, but strength isn't actually an issue in sewing clothes, you know.

A more important reason is that families in poor Asian countries just can't survive if only the man was working. That leads to child labor, which prevents children or young teenagers from getting a proper education, keeps them from getting a better job later in life and leads to the families which they will one day found leading more or less the same kind of life.

If you ask me, everyone should just boycot products by companies which are known to support such systems. Off the top of my head I can think of Nike. All they would have to do to improve these conditions drastically would be to raise the cost of one pair of Nike shoes by one Euro or Dollar or Pound or what have you. ONE LOUSY FUCKING BUCK!! But no, they'd rather make some extra cash, and besides, if they improve their business policy fucking Adidas will begin to push them off the market. So it's back to the factory for another twelve-hour working day for those twelve year old asian girls. It makes me SICK.
Michael Moore addressed the issue in one of his films (I think it was called "The Big One", I'm not very good like that.) He interviewed Nike's boss, and although the bastard denied there was any such problem, he refused to give any evidence for his claim. WHAT A SLEAZY ARSEHOLE!! Stuff like that makes me mad. It's so unfair.

Who'll get burned next? On my people, they took turns.

Who are your people?

[Wisemon]

one reason why more Asian women go to work might be because the average Asian man isn't much stronger than the average Asian woman.

It might be manual labour of a kind, but strength isn't actually an issue in sewing clothes, you know.

You conveniently left out the part where I said that I knew that it wasn't true. I was just trying to make a joke.

On my people, they took turns.

Who are your people?

Actually, that was a Rage Against The Machine quote (from "Bombtrack"), which seemed appropriate for where the topic was turning. I just bought the new live album (their last concert), so it's on my brain. If you want to know who my people are, check the summary in "Headline News". If you want to see my prank on the majority, read "Dare To Be Stupid" and the forthcoming "I Think I'm A Clone Now". I'll say anything to get people to read my stories. I'm a shill.

[urban dream]

You conveniently left out the part where I said that I knew that it wasn't true. I was just trying to make a joke.

Oops... Sorry. I sorta missed that. Silly me... :oops:

Actually, that was a Rage Against The Machine quote (from "Bombtrack"), which seemed appropriate for where the topic was turning.

Again: Oops, silly me. I sorta missed that... :oops:

^^;;;

[UnknownH]

my thoughts:
well my with parents my mom works and so does my dad
my mom took care of me my sister and now help take care of my nephew (and I do too sometimes)
my dad doesn't do any of that
my mom pays the bills my dad doesn't
and with my sister's family
my sister and her husband works
they both take care of their kid

I know there's a women out there who better than me just like there's a guy out there better than me
but it's just because of what I can and can't do

and that's my opinion