How to Save America

[Anonmon]

Huh? I was punning off of a 19th century liberal slogan "Bread and roses", meaning they wanted the food, housing and supplies they needed AND education, culture and sophistication.

[The Anti-Wisemon]

"Freedom, equality and bread" more like it.

"Life, liberty and property" for me.

[Anonmon]

Don't twist words that have not been spoken - Random Wise Man

I don't care what your slogans are, you don't even abide by them it would seem, except for "Life". Liberty? You want it only from government, which in the modern world is the least of a citizen's worries. Property? You want property rights only for those who already posess things.

[The Anti-Wisemon]

I guess you don't know what either of those phrases come from.

Liberty? You want it only from government, which in the modern world is the least of a citizens worries.

Please, big government threatens the rights of the people every day. Not that you've noticed, you've probably rationalized much of it.

Property? You want property rights only for those who already posess things.

Yes, I do think that people have the rights for their possessions not to be stolen, but I also recognize that people can certainly expand their property.

[Anonmon]

I know that the second phrase is John Locke.

And why are YOU, a hardcore Libertarian with a capital L, saying that SMALL government threatens people's rights?

BIG ANYTHING threatens people's rights. It doesn't matter if it is government, arsenals in neighboring countries, businesses, whatever. As long as it can act without being a human individual restricted by the limitations of human individuals, it is a threat and must be kept under control.

[The Anti-Wisemon]

How does big business threaten any rights? Is it not ultimately controlled by the consumers?

[Wisemon]

How does big business threaten any rights? Is it not ultimately controlled by the consumers?

Not when there's a monopoly, and not when the products, such as software, oil, or low cost retail goods, are necessary for our way of life. You know damn well that's the point being made, the one you keep side-stepping with your idealistic "capitalism will make everything work out in the end" logic. Capitalism only works with regulations in place, otherwise the power that businesses have supercede the principles of capitalism. There is historical proof; read up on the early 1900's, before regulation. Circa 1905, one man practically owned the United States; can you tell me his name?

[The Anti-Wisemon]

Rockefeller? Possibly Carnegie? Maybe one of the railroad tycoon owners?

Any monoplies generally don't raise prices, follow the direction of the consumer, and don't last long. Read my Rockefeller example.

[Anonmon]

Actually in terms of overall human good capitalism doesn't work at all. Too authoritarian.

[Wisemon]

Rockefeller? Possibly Carnegie? Maybe one of the railroad tycoon owners?

Any monoplies generally don't raise prices, follow the direction of the consumer, and don't last long. Read my Rockefeller example.

You're slightly off in the time period; it's Morgan, the broker. Just because a monopoly doesn't raise prices, doesn't mean that it can't. Do you know how much a Microsoft Office package costs? Keep in mind, you can only have one per computer due to license shit. Anyway, it's still too much power, and there are other ways to abuse it.

Actually in terms of overall human good capitalism doesn't work at all. Too authoritarian

If you want to help, then help, but don't be some complete anti-capitalist hippie bullshit spewer. Capitalism is necessary to keep humanity motivated, but just as humans need laws to keep them from killing and raping whoever they please, so does capitalism.