08-02-2006, 11:22 AM
Thank you, T.
There are rules that need to be followed in any path you follow in life. Even the rule-breakers have rules they follow, Dreamer.
I'm not saying you need to go to college to become a poet or a writer, but if you have no desire to listen to your peers and those who are offering you sound advice, it is best to stay out of publishing your writing, both professionally and unprofessionally. Wisemon and I could have been far harsher and given you no positive advice on your poetry or writing. We could have flamed you, called you a "worthless excuse for a writer" or called your writing "a steaming pile of shit." Or we could have called you that. But thast is not the style for either of us, Dreamer. We want to HELP you develop your writing so that you can be more than just proud of what you write, but have others appreciate it as well.
I have a selection of stories I will never publish (again), and they fall into two categories. The first is wish fulfillment stories. Some of my first published lemons were of this type. The second is works I'm too embarrassed to share at this point. I know they were good for the skill I had at the time, but now I know they were crap. For my own shame, I stole names blatantly into an original world -- Thor, Camelot, Olympia, Jargon and Frodo are all names I used with no heed to the world they were in.
However, I have improved and am re-writing that story, because that story is so dear to me that even as a pile of dung, I can't abandon it. I need to polish it so that the dung is gone and the gems in the dirt beneath it are visible. I even showed you an example of poetry that I am disappointed in, from the same story I just told you about.
So poetry comes from your soul, you say. And thus needs no editing? Well, that if your soul is redundant? What if your soul is boring? What if your soul is a fool? What if, to paraphrase Cosby, your soul is an asshole? What if your soul is short on words?
Poetry can express three primary things. It can express emotions, thoughts, or stories. Ideally it should only express one emotion, thought or story per poem. Otherwise your readers will be confused and conflicted, unsure of what your intention is with the poem.
Formal poetry is where the rules lie, and until you understand the rules and how to apply them, you do not have license to begin taking liberty with them in the name of style. So although everyone has a different style, they should all generally follow the rules, or else it's a mess.
Is it better to express less with more words, or more with less words? Would you rather read a lot of words that mean nothing, or a few words of great meaning? One of the elements of style:
Even your argument is long winded! You could as well have said "Say what you will, it doesn't matter. Your approval is unnecessary to my writing." If even such a simple thing to say becomes so long in your soul, what more elongation will occur if you attempt to write a poem or story?
Poetic device is well and good, but your poem (Sweet Satisfaction That is Cutting) is lacking in cohesion. Here's a more conciese, yet still poetic, way to write it:
I won't take credit for that. I'm not a cutter, and I wouldn't write poetry about cutting. But in this the thoughts are clear and concise, and though they remain repetitive, at least the vigour of expression in them runs through in how simply and quickly the words come through. This is YOUR poen revised by me. Is it boring now that I changed the words? I can better read this version and better react to it, because it doesn't drag.
Perhaps others would see the same thing. Perhaps you can see the same thing, Dreamer, if you open your eyes to the rules of writing. They're the rules that guide all writing, just like the rules of any job or hobby. English is already a low information content language. Using more words than you need only hurts your case.
There are rules that need to be followed in any path you follow in life. Even the rule-breakers have rules they follow, Dreamer.
I'm not saying you need to go to college to become a poet or a writer, but if you have no desire to listen to your peers and those who are offering you sound advice, it is best to stay out of publishing your writing, both professionally and unprofessionally. Wisemon and I could have been far harsher and given you no positive advice on your poetry or writing. We could have flamed you, called you a "worthless excuse for a writer" or called your writing "a steaming pile of shit." Or we could have called you that. But thast is not the style for either of us, Dreamer. We want to HELP you develop your writing so that you can be more than just proud of what you write, but have others appreciate it as well.
I have a selection of stories I will never publish (again), and they fall into two categories. The first is wish fulfillment stories. Some of my first published lemons were of this type. The second is works I'm too embarrassed to share at this point. I know they were good for the skill I had at the time, but now I know they were crap. For my own shame, I stole names blatantly into an original world -- Thor, Camelot, Olympia, Jargon and Frodo are all names I used with no heed to the world they were in.
However, I have improved and am re-writing that story, because that story is so dear to me that even as a pile of dung, I can't abandon it. I need to polish it so that the dung is gone and the gems in the dirt beneath it are visible. I even showed you an example of poetry that I am disappointed in, from the same story I just told you about.
Quote:I said to a guy, "Tell me, what is it about cocaine that makes it so wonderful," and he said, "Because it intensifies your personality." I said, "Yes, but what if you're an asshole?"
Bill Cosby
So poetry comes from your soul, you say. And thus needs no editing? Well, that if your soul is redundant? What if your soul is boring? What if your soul is a fool? What if, to paraphrase Cosby, your soul is an asshole? What if your soul is short on words?
Poetry can express three primary things. It can express emotions, thoughts, or stories. Ideally it should only express one emotion, thought or story per poem. Otherwise your readers will be confused and conflicted, unsure of what your intention is with the poem.
Formal poetry is where the rules lie, and until you understand the rules and how to apply them, you do not have license to begin taking liberty with them in the name of style. So although everyone has a different style, they should all generally follow the rules, or else it's a mess.
Is it better to express less with more words, or more with less words? Would you rather read a lot of words that mean nothing, or a few words of great meaning? One of the elements of style:
Quote:Rule seventeen. Omit needless words.
Vigorous writing in concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This requires not that the writer make all sentences short, or avoid all detial and treat subjects only in outlines, but that every word tell.
William Strunk Jr. & E. B. White's Elements of Style
Even your argument is long winded! You could as well have said "Say what you will, it doesn't matter. Your approval is unnecessary to my writing." If even such a simple thing to say becomes so long in your soul, what more elongation will occur if you attempt to write a poem or story?
Poetic device is well and good, but your poem (Sweet Satisfaction That is Cutting) is lacking in cohesion. Here's a more conciese, yet still poetic, way to write it:
Quote:You watch your crimson flow and drop,
The pain descends along with it,
You feel the pain going away
And even tears lose meaning
Now you fall back from yourself,
You've been here many times before,
How many more you'll come again,
Losing more with every passing trip.
Can your heart still stand the grief?
It can't, and so you drown in pain,
To show the others how you hurt
By turning inside-out.
You know as you cut your silken skin,
This will surely make things good.
The hurt will come out with your blood,
Each drop a soulful tear.
You cut to send your anger off,
To end your feelings and your pain.
Darkness swirls inside your head,
Releasing demons deep within.
They tell you how to hold the knife,
To let yourself go in crimson drops.
Does it even matter anymore,
If your meaningless life ends here?
You hear the words, the little sounds,
The people asking "Why?"
You ask them why it hurts so much,
And yourself how much longer you'll last.
How many times will this go on?
You don't want them hurt again,
You don't want the pain again.
But it never stops and you're alone,
'Cause nobody understands your pain,
And the only way you can let it out,
Is by dripping crimson on the floor.
Somehow it's your solution,
Somehow it makes it all better.
All the twisted up feelings leave
You lose yourself for just a while.
Then the wounds become scars,
And they show through your skin,
The pain that you feel inside.
Some people see them,
Some people cry,
Till the day that you just wanna hide
And cut yourself to find relief,
More with each day,
As the cuts get so deep.
Pain and joy that stem from fear,
Let the dark overtake you,
And let the blood fall.
Unchanging and
Ever hurting.
I won't take credit for that. I'm not a cutter, and I wouldn't write poetry about cutting. But in this the thoughts are clear and concise, and though they remain repetitive, at least the vigour of expression in them runs through in how simply and quickly the words come through. This is YOUR poen revised by me. Is it boring now that I changed the words? I can better read this version and better react to it, because it doesn't drag.
Perhaps others would see the same thing. Perhaps you can see the same thing, Dreamer, if you open your eyes to the rules of writing. They're the rules that guide all writing, just like the rules of any job or hobby. English is already a low information content language. Using more words than you need only hurts your case.